Nortel UK Employees - You are at risk
UK employment laws, your contracts and years of service will provide no protection if you are chosen to be dismissed.
On 30th March 229 former colleagues were laid off with just days, or even hours, notice. Nortel gave them no redundancy pay, did not pay their notice, and did not carry out the consultation that is required under UK law. Ernst and Young (E&Y) admitted at the time that they had not complied with UK legislation. E&Y have since dismissed our rights to grievance meetings and have stated that they will have no further communication on the matter.
In France and Germany Nortel staff are being treated very differently, yet E&Y claim that “special circumstances” apply in the UK though. They claim they couldn’t afford consultation, notice or severance. This is despite maintaining the £40M bung to the 2012 Olympics, $43M bonus in NA, $23m KEIP bonus and the $9M retention bonus in the UK. Further, when Nortel UK went into administration it had over $400M in the bank.
You may be next so read this carefully and start to make preparations
In the good old days when Nortel tried to do the “right thing” you signed a couple of documents and received a generous severance payment, you could then focus on finding a job and had money to tide you over.
If you are dismissed now there is a great deal of administrative paperwork and hassle to deal with, neither the company nor the administrators will do it for you and your income stops immediately
These notes are based on the experience of ex-colleagues who have already gone through the grinder and are intended to help you get to grips with that hassle, they in no way replace official documents and the many guides on the Internet but hopefully will ease the stress a bit.
Overview
When you are dismissed without notice or severance;
- You need to make sure your holiday records are correct
- You need to verify your final salary payments and pension contributions are correct
- You can claim statutory redundancy payments from the government
- You need to register a grievance with Nortel and Ernst & Young
- You need to register a claim for unfair dismissal, wrongful dismissal and a protective award for failure to consult with the Employment Tribunal
- You need to sign on at the Job Centre as soon as possible
- You become an unsecured creditor for what you should have been paid and at the end of the day will probably receive 10-20% of what you might otherwise have expected.
Being dismissed
You will be called to a meeting and told you are redundant, that you will not be paid notice or severance and given a pack of documents.
Included in that pack will be your redundancy letter from E&Y which you will need to keep, don’t tear it up as it is proof of the date of termination of employment. You should also get a copy of a document from the government insolvency service “Redundancy and Insolvency - guide for employees” which contains the key information you need to make the claim for statutory redundancy, including Form RP1.
Hand in company property;
- Laptop and accessories
- Mobile phone and SIM so the recipient can verify the IMSI, cut up the SIM card (if you want, ask if you can keep the phone, to use it with your own SIM only contract)
- Hang on to your Amex card for now
Get a written and signed receipt for the returned items with serial numbers though you will probably have to provide your own receipt form.
First things first
- Join the NNUKSevered forum by sending a mail from your personal email account to nnuksevered-subscribe@yahoogroups.co.uk where you can get advice from those of us who have been through this process already. In the mail you need to put your GID, name, which group you were in and when you were laid off. You may be asked for evidence to prevent infiltration.
- If you have a company mobile contact BT and cancel the service, agree outstanding charges and request a separate bill to your address rather than a charge on the Amex account
- Once the Amex account has been cleared, cancel the account and destroy the card
- If you are over 50 get a state pension forecast, this will tell you how many years NI you have accumulated. As of 2010 you need 30 years to qualify for full state pension
- Contact HRSS to agree key data for form RP1 addressing questions;
28. Date started working for employer
33. Gross rate of pay
58. Owed holiday pay
59. Start date of holiday year 1-Jul-08
62. Days could carry forward
65. Days taken
66. Days taken – not paid
67. Days owed up to termination date
68. Bank holidays taken but not paid
69. Owed wages
What you can claim
Nortel should pay you up to the date of dismissal, but excluding any leave accrued prior to January 14th but not taken. Make sure you have received this and check on pension contributions.
At some point you will receive a P45 which you need to keep.
Because Nortel hasn’t paid you severance you can claim statutory payments from the government (the Redundancy Payment Office) using forms RP1 This is provided to you on dismissal allowing you to claim statutory wages, redundancy pay and holiday pay and should be sent to Ernst & Young. The first part (redundancy pay) comes through after a few weeks and varies depending on length of service and age, see http://www.berr.gov.uk/cgi-bin/er_feb07_reconner.pl (paid at £350 per week)
Subsequently, an RP2 form should be sent to you after your nominal notice period has expired which allows you to claim capped notice pay and any unpaid accrued holiday. This is capped at a 12 weeks and a maximum weekly pay (£350 for 2009/10).
By not being given a consultation period and no notice period or pay you have been unfairly and wrongfully dismissed. You can receive (capped) compensation for this and for a “protective award” (capped at £2800) by making a claim via the Employment Tribunal. But you must first make a grievance complaint to Nortel and the administrators
For any amounts beyond what you get via RP1, RP2 and the Employment Tribunal you become an unsecured creditor of the company along with the rest of us and in line to receive some as yet undefined dividend (percentage of what you are owed) once Nortel comes out of administration. HRSS should send you a summary of what your severance would have been if Nortel was not in administration, we assume this represents the basis of the unsecured claim but this has not yet been tested or verified. In any event you should validate the information HRSS provide you, for example common mistakes have related to the type of pension and the effective starting date.
A rough summary of what can be claimed is as follows;
From the Government Redundancy Payments Office
Item Weeks pay capped at £350 per week Tax NI Likely Timing Note Form Probability
Unpaid Wages for time worked Actual unpaid wages (Max 8 weeks) Y Y Within 6wks £350 cap is applied before tax & NI. No unpaid wages in first round RP1 100%
Redundancy pay Depends on Age & yrs of service N N(?) Generally within 6wks See http://www.berr.gov.uk/cgi-bin/er_feb07_reconner.pl RP1 100%
Holiday Pay Actual unpaid accrued holiday Y Y Apply after 3 month statutory notice period Carry over cannot be paid unless allowed under contract; £350 cap is applied before tax & NI RP2 100%
Pay in Lieu of Notice 1 wk/yr of employment, max 12 wks Y N Apply after 3 month statutory notice period If <2 yrs employment 1 wk only. £350 cap applied after deductions for earnings, benefits (inc JSA) and tax have are made RP2 100%
Protective award for Failure to Consult Max 8 weeks * £350 ? ? After ruling by employment tribunal Need to go through ET process, currently being piloted Not known <100%
Basic Award for unfair dismissal Not known N Y After ruling by employment tribunal Need to make a grievance claim to Nortel then go through ET process. Currently being piloted. Not known <<100%
From JobCentre plus
Jobseekers allowance £60 pw approx Paid per week for the first 26 weeks you are unemployed, not means tested. Thereafter means tested Y N? Claim from JobCentreplus or online. Claiming also credits your NI records. However the amount you get (or should have got) will eventually be deducted from the RPO payment for Pay in Lieu of Notice
From other bodies
Statutory Sick Pay Not known Claimed from DWP not from RPO
Maternity pay Not known Claimed from Revenue & Customs not from RPO
Signing On at a Job Centre
A key aspect to bear in mind is that you are required to minimize costs to government and the administrators. They will deduct benefits you could/should have claimed such as Job Seekers Allowance from awards. So, unless you are moving into a new job straight away or retiring you need to sign-on at the Job Centre and claim Job Seekers Allowance (JSA) as soon as you can, this will hopefully pay you a benefit amount and NI contributions each week. They will need your P45 when you get it.
There are two kinds of JSA, Contribution-based (preferable) and income-based.
Contribution-based JSA depends on how much you have paid in National Insurance Contributions in the last two tax years, and can be paid for up to six months. Income and savings are not taken into account. If you have been working full time for two years, you will be paid the
JSA for the full six months. If you have only been working part-time, you will receive payment for less time - three months, for example. However, pensions are also taken into account and can reduce contribution based JSA, in some cases to zero, but don’t impact NI contributions.
Income-based JSA is for those who have not made sufficient National Insurance Contributions, and is based on your income and savings. It is paid until you find work. Your payments might be reduced if you receive income from part-time employment and/or a pension. You will also get less if you have savings of more than £6,000. If you have savings of more than £16,000 you probably won't qualify. If your partner or civil partner works 24 hours or more a week, you also won't qualify; if they work less than 24 hours, it may affect how much you get.
The JSA weekly amount is £63.40 per week for people over 25 years of age. The amount will be capped and if claiming contributions based JSA the payment will be made for a maximum period of time.
In either case you must be able to show you are seeking work and are required to attend the Job Centre every two weeks to confirm this, if not you risk losing the JSA.
You will get a written statement of entitled JSA even if it is zero, keep this as it is proof to ensure the correct benefits are deducted from compensation, awards etc. If your JSA is zero check that your NI contributions are at the minimum level for full state pension before considering signing off the Job Centre.
Employment Tribunal
The claim to the Employment Tribunal can be made individually or on a group basis. Both approaches are currently being followed in three ET courts and the hearings are due to be held sometime in second half of this year. Rather than go through details of this process, which is published on the web anyway, it would be more effective to discuss the approach via the forum if and when the next group has been dismissed.
What next
Above all think about yourself and your family, sort out your future as a first priority. If you need advice then contact the Citizen‟s Advice Bureau, they have a lot of experience helping people like us navigate the maze of regulations and forms. Ask questions on the forum, someone may already have found the answer, if not contribute an answer yourself when you find it. If you have not already done so it is a good idea to work out a monthly budget so that you are prepared for the loss of income.
If we do nothing then we may get some dividend (pence in the pound) when Nortel comes out of administration. Some of us are trying to get more though as we believe that the administrators acted illegally and unethically in the way we were dismissed. Partly this will be addressed via the Employment Tribunal but apart from a “protective award” award the rest is added to the unsecured debt owed to you by the company, administered by the same people who broke the rules.
We are pressuring the administrators and company to settle for more than the statutory and bare minimums. You can help by contributing to various actions coordinated through the NNUKsevered forum, including;
- Write to your MP and encourage them to join the 20 or so MPs already pressuring Ernst & Young to do the right thing
- Write to your MEP raising this at the EU level, the UK law on consultation period as actually an implementation of a Europe-wide law.
- Support the protest actions by coming along and adding to the numbers
- Find ways to get the press involved and active
- Find legal ways to publicly highlight the unethical actions of Ernst & Young and Nortel
On 30th March 229 former colleagues were laid off with just days, or even hours, notice. Nortel gave them no redundancy pay, did not pay their notice, and did not carry out the consultation that is required under UK law. Ernst and Young (E&Y) admitted at the time that they had not complied with UK legislation. E&Y have since dismissed our rights to grievance meetings and have stated that they will have no further communication on the matter.
In France and Germany Nortel staff are being treated very differently, yet E&Y claim that “special circumstances” apply in the UK though. They claim they couldn’t afford consultation, notice or severance. This is despite maintaining the £40M bung to the 2012 Olympics, $43M bonus in NA, $23m KEIP bonus and the $9M retention bonus in the UK. Further, when Nortel UK went into administration it had over $400M in the bank.
You may be next so read this carefully and start to make preparations
In the good old days when Nortel tried to do the “right thing” you signed a couple of documents and received a generous severance payment, you could then focus on finding a job and had money to tide you over.
If you are dismissed now there is a great deal of administrative paperwork and hassle to deal with, neither the company nor the administrators will do it for you and your income stops immediately
These notes are based on the experience of ex-colleagues who have already gone through the grinder and are intended to help you get to grips with that hassle, they in no way replace official documents and the many guides on the Internet but hopefully will ease the stress a bit.
Overview
When you are dismissed without notice or severance;
- You need to make sure your holiday records are correct
- You need to verify your final salary payments and pension contributions are correct
- You can claim statutory redundancy payments from the government
- You need to register a grievance with Nortel and Ernst & Young
- You need to register a claim for unfair dismissal, wrongful dismissal and a protective award for failure to consult with the Employment Tribunal
- You need to sign on at the Job Centre as soon as possible
- You become an unsecured creditor for what you should have been paid and at the end of the day will probably receive 10-20% of what you might otherwise have expected.
Being dismissed
You will be called to a meeting and told you are redundant, that you will not be paid notice or severance and given a pack of documents.
Included in that pack will be your redundancy letter from E&Y which you will need to keep, don’t tear it up as it is proof of the date of termination of employment. You should also get a copy of a document from the government insolvency service “Redundancy and Insolvency - guide for employees” which contains the key information you need to make the claim for statutory redundancy, including Form RP1.
Hand in company property;
- Laptop and accessories
- Mobile phone and SIM so the recipient can verify the IMSI, cut up the SIM card (if you want, ask if you can keep the phone, to use it with your own SIM only contract)
- Hang on to your Amex card for now
Get a written and signed receipt for the returned items with serial numbers though you will probably have to provide your own receipt form.
First things first
- Join the NNUKSevered forum by sending a mail from your personal email account to nnuksevered-subscribe@yahoogroups.co.uk where you can get advice from those of us who have been through this process already. In the mail you need to put your GID, name, which group you were in and when you were laid off. You may be asked for evidence to prevent infiltration.
- If you have a company mobile contact BT and cancel the service, agree outstanding charges and request a separate bill to your address rather than a charge on the Amex account
- Once the Amex account has been cleared, cancel the account and destroy the card
- If you are over 50 get a state pension forecast, this will tell you how many years NI you have accumulated. As of 2010 you need 30 years to qualify for full state pension
- Contact HRSS to agree key data for form RP1 addressing questions;
28. Date started working for employer
33. Gross rate of pay
58. Owed holiday pay
59. Start date of holiday year 1-Jul-08
62. Days could carry forward
65. Days taken
66. Days taken – not paid
67. Days owed up to termination date
68. Bank holidays taken but not paid
69. Owed wages
What you can claim
Nortel should pay you up to the date of dismissal, but excluding any leave accrued prior to January 14th but not taken. Make sure you have received this and check on pension contributions.
At some point you will receive a P45 which you need to keep.
Because Nortel hasn’t paid you severance you can claim statutory payments from the government (the Redundancy Payment Office) using forms RP1 This is provided to you on dismissal allowing you to claim statutory wages, redundancy pay and holiday pay and should be sent to Ernst & Young. The first part (redundancy pay) comes through after a few weeks and varies depending on length of service and age, see http://www.berr.gov.uk/cgi-bin/er_feb07_reconner.pl (paid at £350 per week)
Subsequently, an RP2 form should be sent to you after your nominal notice period has expired which allows you to claim capped notice pay and any unpaid accrued holiday. This is capped at a 12 weeks and a maximum weekly pay (£350 for 2009/10).
By not being given a consultation period and no notice period or pay you have been unfairly and wrongfully dismissed. You can receive (capped) compensation for this and for a “protective award” (capped at £2800) by making a claim via the Employment Tribunal. But you must first make a grievance complaint to Nortel and the administrators
For any amounts beyond what you get via RP1, RP2 and the Employment Tribunal you become an unsecured creditor of the company along with the rest of us and in line to receive some as yet undefined dividend (percentage of what you are owed) once Nortel comes out of administration. HRSS should send you a summary of what your severance would have been if Nortel was not in administration, we assume this represents the basis of the unsecured claim but this has not yet been tested or verified. In any event you should validate the information HRSS provide you, for example common mistakes have related to the type of pension and the effective starting date.
A rough summary of what can be claimed is as follows;
From the Government Redundancy Payments Office
Item Weeks pay capped at £350 per week Tax NI Likely Timing Note Form Probability
Unpaid Wages for time worked Actual unpaid wages (Max 8 weeks) Y Y Within 6wks £350 cap is applied before tax & NI. No unpaid wages in first round RP1 100%
Redundancy pay Depends on Age & yrs of service N N(?) Generally within 6wks See http://www.berr.gov.uk/cgi-bin/er_feb07_reconner.pl RP1 100%
Holiday Pay Actual unpaid accrued holiday Y Y Apply after 3 month statutory notice period Carry over cannot be paid unless allowed under contract; £350 cap is applied before tax & NI RP2 100%
Pay in Lieu of Notice 1 wk/yr of employment, max 12 wks Y N Apply after 3 month statutory notice period If <2 yrs employment 1 wk only. £350 cap applied after deductions for earnings, benefits (inc JSA) and tax have are made RP2 100%
Protective award for Failure to Consult Max 8 weeks * £350 ? ? After ruling by employment tribunal Need to go through ET process, currently being piloted Not known <100%
Basic Award for unfair dismissal Not known N Y After ruling by employment tribunal Need to make a grievance claim to Nortel then go through ET process. Currently being piloted. Not known <<100%
From JobCentre plus
Jobseekers allowance £60 pw approx Paid per week for the first 26 weeks you are unemployed, not means tested. Thereafter means tested Y N? Claim from JobCentreplus or online. Claiming also credits your NI records. However the amount you get (or should have got) will eventually be deducted from the RPO payment for Pay in Lieu of Notice
From other bodies
Statutory Sick Pay Not known Claimed from DWP not from RPO
Maternity pay Not known Claimed from Revenue & Customs not from RPO
Signing On at a Job Centre
A key aspect to bear in mind is that you are required to minimize costs to government and the administrators. They will deduct benefits you could/should have claimed such as Job Seekers Allowance from awards. So, unless you are moving into a new job straight away or retiring you need to sign-on at the Job Centre and claim Job Seekers Allowance (JSA) as soon as you can, this will hopefully pay you a benefit amount and NI contributions each week. They will need your P45 when you get it.
There are two kinds of JSA, Contribution-based (preferable) and income-based.
Contribution-based JSA depends on how much you have paid in National Insurance Contributions in the last two tax years, and can be paid for up to six months. Income and savings are not taken into account. If you have been working full time for two years, you will be paid the
JSA for the full six months. If you have only been working part-time, you will receive payment for less time - three months, for example. However, pensions are also taken into account and can reduce contribution based JSA, in some cases to zero, but don’t impact NI contributions.
Income-based JSA is for those who have not made sufficient National Insurance Contributions, and is based on your income and savings. It is paid until you find work. Your payments might be reduced if you receive income from part-time employment and/or a pension. You will also get less if you have savings of more than £6,000. If you have savings of more than £16,000 you probably won't qualify. If your partner or civil partner works 24 hours or more a week, you also won't qualify; if they work less than 24 hours, it may affect how much you get.
The JSA weekly amount is £63.40 per week for people over 25 years of age. The amount will be capped and if claiming contributions based JSA the payment will be made for a maximum period of time.
In either case you must be able to show you are seeking work and are required to attend the Job Centre every two weeks to confirm this, if not you risk losing the JSA.
You will get a written statement of entitled JSA even if it is zero, keep this as it is proof to ensure the correct benefits are deducted from compensation, awards etc. If your JSA is zero check that your NI contributions are at the minimum level for full state pension before considering signing off the Job Centre.
Employment Tribunal
The claim to the Employment Tribunal can be made individually or on a group basis. Both approaches are currently being followed in three ET courts and the hearings are due to be held sometime in second half of this year. Rather than go through details of this process, which is published on the web anyway, it would be more effective to discuss the approach via the forum if and when the next group has been dismissed.
What next
Above all think about yourself and your family, sort out your future as a first priority. If you need advice then contact the Citizen‟s Advice Bureau, they have a lot of experience helping people like us navigate the maze of regulations and forms. Ask questions on the forum, someone may already have found the answer, if not contribute an answer yourself when you find it. If you have not already done so it is a good idea to work out a monthly budget so that you are prepared for the loss of income.
If we do nothing then we may get some dividend (pence in the pound) when Nortel comes out of administration. Some of us are trying to get more though as we believe that the administrators acted illegally and unethically in the way we were dismissed. Partly this will be addressed via the Employment Tribunal but apart from a “protective award” award the rest is added to the unsecured debt owed to you by the company, administered by the same people who broke the rules.
We are pressuring the administrators and company to settle for more than the statutory and bare minimums. You can help by contributing to various actions coordinated through the NNUKsevered forum, including;
- Write to your MP and encourage them to join the 20 or so MPs already pressuring Ernst & Young to do the right thing
- Write to your MEP raising this at the EU level, the UK law on consultation period as actually an implementation of a Europe-wide law.
- Support the protest actions by coming along and adding to the numbers
- Find ways to get the press involved and active
- Find legal ways to publicly highlight the unethical actions of Ernst & Young and Nortel
Existing Nortel UK employees - Join the nnukatrisk forum
You may be interested to know of a forum where you can find out the true behaviour of Nortel and Ernst and Young once they boot you out.
Sign up today to learn about your fate, it'll be an eye opener. The forum is just being put together for YOUR benefit, for your own future's sake,
you need to know how little they think of you. The info will be increased over the coming days.
This is an open forum where information of general interest will be posted. You should be allowed to join immediately.
To subscribe just send a mail from your personal email account to
nnukatrisk-subscribe@yahoogroups.co.uk
Post message: nnukatrisk@yahoogroups.co.uk
Unsubscribe: nnukatrisk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.co.uk
List owner: nnukatrisk-owner@yahoogroups.co.uk
You can join with a Yahoo Id or alias if you want to conceal your identify.
Most material will probably be posted by ex-staff, but should be readable
to all
The full URL for the nnukatrisk group is
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/nnukatrisk/
You will need to join the group before you can see content.
So, you have been made redundant by Ernst & Young on behalf of Nortel. What do you do next? See below:
This page contains the following information:
1. Advice on what to do if you are made redundant by Ernst & Young on behalf of Nortel. This was compiled on the experience of the original 229 ex-employees severed in March.
2. Joining Instructions for the Yahoo Support Group “nnuksevered” - This forum is for severed Nortel employees only.
3. Joining Instructions for the Yahoo Support Group “nnukatrisk” - This is a forum for current Nortel employees.
4. URL for a guide produced by Harlow Council for ex Nortel Harlow employees, and offer of support.
1. Advice on what to do if you are made redundant by Ernst & Young on behalf of Nortel. This was compiled on the experience of the original 229 ex-employees severed in March.
2. Joining Instructions for the Yahoo Support Group “nnuksevered” - This forum is for severed Nortel employees only.
3. Joining Instructions for the Yahoo Support Group “nnukatrisk” - This is a forum for current Nortel employees.
4. URL for a guide produced by Harlow Council for ex Nortel Harlow employees, and offer of support.
Severed Nortel UK employees - Join the nnuksevered forum
If you are unlucky enough to be made redundant then here is what to do.
1. Read the 'At Risk Handout' above.
2. Join the group nnuksevered.
Membership of nnuksevered is strictly limited to those who have been laid off and checks are made.
To join nnuksevered you need to send an email to nnuksevered-subscribe@yahoogroups.co.uk. IN THE EMAIL YOU MUST STATE YOUR NAME, GID, POSITION AND DATE YOU WERE LAID OFF.
If you are recognised by the moderator or other members and you have an email address which matches your name in some way then you will be admitted to membership. If your email address does not match your name and/or you are not recognised then you will be asked to send a scanned copy of your termination letter to the moderator together with some proof that you are who you are. We apologise for the inconvenience however we prefer to keep membership strictly for those who have, in fact, been terminated.
Email received from Harlow Council Representative offering support to Ex-Nortel Harlow employees
Sent 2 Jul 09:
I understand that more Nortel staff may have been made redundant from the Harlow site this week.
Harlow Council co-ordinates redundancy support to individuals & companies in Harlow and has done so over the last six years. Unfortunately due to the circumstances surrounding these redundancies we were unable to provide this support. I’d be very grateful if you would post a link to our Redundancy guide on your website so that any ex Nortel employees living in Harlow can at least get access to support via the information in this Guide. http://www.harlow.gov.uk/PDF/RRG_Guide_to_Coping_with_Redundancy_09.pdf
If there are any ex-Nortel Harlow residents that need assistance, please ask them to contact me directly, and I will at the very least try and point them in the right direction. We have in the past offered a Redundancy Advice Session at the Civic Centre where we have not been able to get access via the company so if there are numbers of those made redundant that might find this useful, again please contact me. If there is a contact name for any existing group of ex Nortel staff in Harlow, I’d be really grateful if you could pass on my details and ask them to make contact.
Thanks very much for your help.
Julie Houston
Strategy & Infrastructure Manager, Regeneration Unit
Harlow Council
01279 4464445
Many thanks to Julie Houston for contacting us